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White mountains and Misty mountains.

  • Do you think that the white mountains and the misty mountains were at once the same range? And that the glittering caves and moria were the only source of mithril? It also has been stated there is red rock near rivendell, this would certently show why rohan rock is of red-ish color.

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    • Eh what. Why you bridge rivendel and rohan together. And since when is mithril found in glittering caves.

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    • Rohan doesn't have red rock in the book, and the Glittering Caves doesn't have Mithril. They were once the same range, though--the Gap of Rohan is an eroded part of the mountains, as shown by the fault tangle west of Helm's Deep.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë) 11:36, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

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    • Really? Is there map which shows that they were connected.

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    • Ever read the atlas of middle earth? It literally says they were probably the same range. That even makes lots of sense.

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    • Nop. Plus if I recall right it has many inacurracies.

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    • Um... it doesn't, actually. There's a reason every Tolkien scholar uses it.


      And since you've never read it, you're in absolutely no place whatsoever to say it's inaccurate.

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    • Well tolkien didnt write it plus wasnt it there where ironfists were refered as xnenohpobes who lived in Gundabad for some reason?

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    • Eoros wrote: Um... it doesn't, actually. There's a reason every Tolkien scholar uses it.


      And since you've never read it, you're in absolutely no place whatsoever to say it's inaccurate.

      The only one I know of is how she apparently cut 100 miles off of Eriador.

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    • KHAMULofHARDA wrote:
      Well tolkien didnt write it plus wasnt it there where ironfists were refered as xnenohpobes who lived in Gundabad for some reason?

      Tolkien would never have made an atlas of middle earth.

      Just so you know, this mod is heavily based off that book. There's lots of invaluable info in there, and all her sources are either directly related to Tolkien, or are super common sense.


      There was nothing about xenophobia. Why don't you read the book before you go criticising it: maybe I'll listen to you.

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    • High King Ithilion wrote:
      Rohan doesn't have red rock in the book, and the Glittering Caves doesn't have Mithril. They were once the same range, though--the Gap of Rohan is an eroded part of the mountains, as shown by the fault tangle west of Helm's Deep.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë) 11:36, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

      I am wondering if they had mithril, not stating that they did have it.

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    • Eoros wrote:
      Ever read the atlas of middle earth? It literally says they were probably the same range. That even makes lots of sense.

      I have read it.

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    • Eoros wrote:
      KHAMULofHARDA wrote:
      Well tolkien didnt write it plus wasnt it there where ironfists were refered as xnenohpobes who lived in Gundabad for some reason?
      Tolkien would never have made an atlas of middle earth.

      Just so you know, this mod is heavily based off that book. There's lots of invaluable info in there, and all her sources are either directly related to Tolkien, or are super common sense.


      There was nothing about xenophobia. Why don't you read the book before you go criticising it: maybe I'll listen to you.

      I have it, and it's a great book. Every so often I'll notice a spelling mistake, but that doesn't change any of the information displayed on the page.

      TurammarthHeraldry-0 Aranwë Túrammarth Utúlie'n aurë!

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    • High King Ithilion wrote: Rohan doesn't have red rock in the book, and the Glittering Caves doesn't have Mithril. They were once the same range, though--the Gap of Rohan is an eroded part of the mountains, as shown by the fault tangle west of Helm's Deep.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë) 11:36, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

      It's possible they did have mithril and far more likely than other options. Moria wasn't reclaimed by the dwarves at the time the Dwarves of the Glittering Caves made a mithril gate for Minas Tirith. I HIGHLY doubt they smelted down large amounts of mithril heirlooms from Erebor or wherever to make a gate for foreigners, or that they even had enough heirlooms.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 22:49, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

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    • That directly contradicts the statement that Mithril was "found in Moria alone of all the world". Seeing as we have a direct denial of that claim, any inference, no matter how valid, is incorrect.

      In any case, I am sure Gimli could scrounge enough Mithril, perhaps as a gift from Dain to Elessar, to help rebuild the gates-especially as they were made of *mithril and steel*, not pure Mithril.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë) 23:24, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

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    • High King Ithilion wrote: That directly contradicts the statement that Mithril was "found in Moria alone of all the world". Seeing as we have a direct denial of that claim, any inference, no matter how valid, is incorrect.

      In any case, I am sure Gimli could scrounge enough Mithril, perhaps as a gift from Dain to Elessar, to help rebuild the gates-especially as they were made of *mithril and steel*, not pure Mithril.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë) 23:24, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

      It would be one of many times Tolkien has contradicted himself. The gates of Minas Tirith are large enough that the amount of mithril needed to reinforce the steel would be more than a few heirlooms, and would be priceless anyway. The dwarves did not have much of it, and it's hinted at that they shared none of it after Moria's fall. Besides, Númenór had helmets of mithril for their elite despite having no contact with the dwarves.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 02:52, April 22, 2017 (UTC)

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    • Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      High King Ithilion wrote: That directly contradicts the statement that Mithril was "found in Moria alone of all the world". Seeing as we have a direct denial of that claim, any inference, no matter how valid, is incorrect.

      In any case, I am sure Gimli could scrounge enough Mithril, perhaps as a gift from Dain to Elessar, to help rebuild the gates-especially as they were made of *mithril and steel*, not pure Mithril.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë) 23:24, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

      It would be one of many times Tolkien has contradicted himself. The gates of Minas Tirith are large enough that the amount of mithril needed to reinforce the steel would be more than a few heirlooms, and would be priceless anyway. The dwarves did not have much of it, and it's hinted at that they shared none of it after Moria's fall. Besides, Númenór had helmets of mithril for their elite despite having no contact with the dwarves.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 02:52, April 22, 2017 (UTC)

      And in such cases, we go with the *clear* lore. That is, there was no mithril outside of Khazad-dum. Although, we do know it was found on Numenor. Therefore, it is easy to postulate, without breaking lore, that in Minas Tirith were kept some stash of mithril from Numenor itself. That would be where the helments of mithril came from, and perhaps some of the material used for the gate, which would still be predominantly steel.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë) 03:17, April 22, 2017 (UTC)

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    • High King Ithilion wrote:

      Gen. Grievous1138 wrote:

      High King Ithilion wrote: That directly contradicts the statement that Mithril was "found in Moria alone of all the world". Seeing as we have a direct denial of that claim, any inference, no matter how valid, is incorrect.

      In any case, I am sure Gimli could scrounge enough Mithril, perhaps as a gift from Dain to Elessar, to help rebuild the gates-especially as they were made of *mithril and steel*, not pure Mithril.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë) 23:24, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

      It would be one of many times Tolkien has contradicted himself. The gates of Minas Tirith are large enough that the amount of mithril needed to reinforce the steel would be more than a few heirlooms, and would be priceless anyway. The dwarves did not have much of it, and it's hinted at that they shared none of it after Moria's fall. Besides, Númenór had helmets of mithril for their elite despite having no contact with the dwarves.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 02:52, April 22, 2017 (UTC)

      And in such cases, we go with the *clear* lore. That is, there was no mithril outside of Khazad-dum. Although, we do know it was found on Numenor. Therefore, it is easy to postulate, without breaking lore, that in Minas Tirith were kept some stash of mithril from Numenor itself. That would be where the helments of mithril came from, and perhaps some of the material used for the gate, which would still be predominantly steel.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë) 03:17, April 22, 2017 (UTC)

      It would still take quite a bit of mithril to make the mithril in the gate useful. Whatever mithril they had in Gondor was likely an heirloom. People don't just melt that stuff down to make a gate, especially not dwarves, the greediest group in Middle-Earth, or Gondorians, who were so wrapped up in their own history that they would become nearly as greedy as dwarves when it came to remnants of their past. It makes zero sense. And if mithril was found on Numenor - which it was, beyond a doubt - then Gandalf's statement is already wrong. I don't find it unlikely for small veins to be found in the rest of the Misties or in the Whites, just not on the scale of Moria.

      Gen. Grievous1138 (LOTR Mod Wiki Admin) comlink 14:00, April 22, 2017 (UTC)

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    • It does, and the Dwarves and Gondor both had some. Recall that the King of Men has been crowned, and doubtless gifts to him would come from far and wide. Dwarven greed doesn't extend to friendship, as we saw with Bilbo, and no doubt Gimli could arrange for some supply of Mithril to be given to the greatest of the lords of Men, his friend. It makes total sense, that, in reward for such friendship, Gimli would secure a great gift. You overestimate Dwarven greed. 

      As for Gandalf, he said it was found alone in Moria in the world, which could easily be referring to Middle-earth only. Numenor is not part of Middle-earth, which is the continents of Harad, Rhun, and the West. Gandalf would doubtless have knowledge of Numenor's mithril, and perhaps this was an editorial oversight--that is, Tolkien only concieved of Numenorean mithril later on and did not amend it. In any case, it is far more logical to take Gandalf's words to be true, adding in what we *know*, rather than inventing locations for Mithril.

      IthilionHeraldry Ithilion, Discussions Moderator(Auta i lómë) 14:19, April 22, 2017 (UTC)

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